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VWL119 wrote:KD 191 wrote:Anyone know if there is any truth in the rumor that the order for 28 VWD's has been suspended due to Volvo doubting Bus Eireann's ability to pay?Can't see why that would matter considering that the NTA funds these.
KD 191 wrote:Anyone know if there is any truth in the rumor that the order for 28 VWD's has been suspended due to Volvo doubting Bus Eireann's ability to pay?
MC308 wrote:There is a possibility of services returning tomorrow but I wouldn't get too surprised if they don't.https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0410/866547-unions-hopeful-of-resolution-to-bus-dispute/
If BE fails ( and I genuinely hope it doesn't) then only the unions and staff of BE have themselves to blame.The company was already in financial difficulty and all that the last three weeks of striking has achieved is bringing the company much closer to the brink.Lets be honest here, the strategy of the unions all along was to try and pressure the government into bringing their chequebook along to sort all of BE's problems with little or no changes to the staff or work practices. The government absolutely rightfully IMO stayed well away from it and told them that it wasn't their problem and that they needed to sort it out between themselves (unions and management).The only thing that the strike has achieved is at best lose staff 3 weeks of pay and lose the company a few million more, which will just increase the cuts and pain required to fix the company. At worst, it could yet end up with the BE staff on statutory redundancy and the dole queue!There is nothing here for the unions to be proud of. This mess has done significant damage to the union movement in Ireland and well might be a turning point for unions in Ireland.As for international comment, there won't be any. There is barely comment about it here in Ireland! Dublin doesn't care much about BE beyond the 109, 101, etc. and the rest of the country is less then impressed with BE's performance and probably wouldn't mind seeing some change.If anything, international commentary is likely to be positive. Breaking up of an inefficient state run monopoly and replacing it with more competitive services and open tendering for routes, will all look pretty good at the EU level. It is what they wanted in the long term anyway.Having said all that, I genuinely feel sorry for the majority of BE staff who were lead down the garden path by the Union fat cats with an agenda of their own. When this started out, it was just BE Expressway that was effected, now because of the gamble that the union leadership took, the whole of BE is endangered and if folks aren't careful, it could effect DB and IR too!At this stage, BE staff really need to stand up and take back control of their union. They need to end the strike right now to stop the bleeding and work out a deal with management to save the company and as many jobs as possible. Yes it will be painful, but hopefully they can negotiate most job loses to be voluntary and with a decent redundancy. In other words exactly what the unions should have been doing three weeks ago, before making things so much worse!
SL10 wrote:BE was brought to this position by poor management, government policy and inaction - not staff or unions. Oh, I agree that BE had incredibly poor management and now they have a new CEO who seems to be trying to sort out the mess and save the company.But I would also say that BE staff and unions also have share a lot of the blame for the state of the company. Simply the management was weak and too afraid to stand up to strong union and staff who blocked any change that management wanted to make and always had their hands out looking for more money for any changes.For instance, tell me why despite BE buying shiny new Expressway buses at 400k a pop, they still don't have toilets unlike most of their competitors? Perhaps it is because drivers refused to clean the toilets unlike their private colleagues?It is very clear to me that the staff and unions were ready to fight any changes to work practices, roasters, overtime payments, etc. that would have positioned the company better to fight the changes in the market and the new competition. We are seeing that now clearly with this idiotic ongoing strike.Also staff were quite happy to take significant ongoing, weekly overtime payments for the past few years to boost their wages and say nothing about it when they most have know that doing so wasn't going to last long term and was going to put the company in financial risk. They, like the unions and probably management just assumed that the government would come along with it's cheque book and make it all alright.Like any company there are certainly inefficiencies amongst staff that need to be addressed, and the unions have agreed to these, in fact 18 million worth. I would refer you to 7minus1's post 14 which outlines very well the problems with BE management. I refer to you to post 32 where I outlined the reasons why BE is in difficulty.Post 14 is interesting, but don't really change anything and actually just go a long way to proving what I thought.Yes, management are weak, but they are weak as they are too afraid too actually listen to the drivers due to an overly adversarial atmosphere between management and unions. In most companies management listen to their staff and take onboard their ideas, in BE management are afraid to do that as they probably fear yet another strike if they try and change anything.Also reading the comments about EXP and PSO being interlinked at many levels is interesting as I've always thought that this relationship goes both ways. That EXP get to unfairly benefit for PSO funded services such as bus stations, depots, maintenance, same marketing department, same HR, etc. All advantages that private operators don't get and quite unfair. The fact that EXP still can't compete with the privates even with all these big advantages doesn't say much about BE.As for your post 32, not much of substance there, just the usual complaints about the nasty NTA allowing privates into the market who have blown BE out of the water with vastly superior services. And the usual snide remarks about low pay and safety regulations.The reason a strike happened and went on for so long is that the government ignored the situation. I certainly cant think of any example in the private sector where the owners of a company in major difficulty sit back and say it is nothing to do with them? I refer you to post 194 where I outlined what the government has ignored. For the umpteenth time, government intervention does not revolve around a 'chequebook'. I again refer you to post 129 by myself in this thread. Post 129, more nonsense about the nasty NTA leaving privates into the market! You mention saturation of the intercity market! What saturation, you mean the 55% and 60% increase in passenger numbers on the Cork and Limerick routes since Aircoach and Dublin Coach started up. Doesn't sound like saturation to me! Sounds like a massive increase in people using public transport and a great win for public transport.You have to remember the primary mission of the NTA is to increase public transport use. It is not to look after the interests of any particular company, including BE. All the rest you posted in this post is clearly having the government bring the cheque book along. It really is very transport, increase PSO payments, increase free travel pass payments, turn EXP routes into PSO routes. All very much attempts to get the government to open the chequebook by the back door. It really is ridiculously transparent and no one is fooled by it, which is why the government were absolutely right to stay out of this mess and to tell you guys to sort it out yourselves.You also ignored most of my questions in posts 174 and 193. I would appreciate a response to these before another unfounded, misinformed anti BE rant.Actually I already responded to your post 174. I said that the 2009 Deloitte report is now largely irrelevant as it was written 8 years ago and most of the ridiculous overtime practises developed since then along with most of the new competition since then. Today BE is very different then it was back in 2009 and so is the wider market.As for post 193. I really don't know about the details of Dublin Coaches finances. And others have replied to you pointing out that it may all be a financial slight of hand, between different sub-companies, etc. I really don't know, but from the perspective of all the recent expansion they have been doing and the shiny new coaches they have, they certainly aren't acting like a company who is broke!However I'll also point out that back when Aircoach started the Cork and Belfast direct routes, that they were also making serious loses at the time. The difference between them and BE, is that they change their operations very quickly to take advantage of the opportunities. They cancelled the less successful Cork stopping service and put the coaches on the new, much more successful direct service and pretty much scrimped up any coach they could find, using old coaches from other routes and bringing in old coaches from abroad to help get these tow new routes going.And it was a massive success for them and now they are back and very profitable. They turned around the company very quickly with massive changes to their services and routes.BE's problem is that they respond glacially to changing market circumstances and seem to think we are still in the 1960'sThere is a big difference between losing money because your costs are far too high and you can't change to compete fast enough. Versus making loses because you have bought lots of new coaches to expand into new markets and grow your business.Amazon is a great example of this. They have never made a profit! Yet they are now the largest retailer in the world and have an insane stock price. The reason being that the market understands that they aren't making a profit, because they are instead pumping profits into continue to expand their market in new areas.Now I don't know if that is true or not for Dublin Coach, we will have to wait and see. But the problem with BE's loses is that they are much more fundamental and certainly aren't due to the company expanding into new markets. Instead the money seems to be just disappearing into large overtime payments and stupid ad campaigns.
BE was brought to this position by poor management, government policy and inaction - not staff or unions.
Like any company there are certainly inefficiencies amongst staff that need to be addressed, and the unions have agreed to these, in fact 18 million worth. I would refer you to 7minus1's post 14 which outlines very well the problems with BE management. I refer to you to post 32 where I outlined the reasons why BE is in difficulty.
The reason a strike happened and went on for so long is that the government ignored the situation. I certainly cant think of any example in the private sector where the owners of a company in major difficulty sit back and say it is nothing to do with them? I refer you to post 194 where I outlined what the government has ignored.
For the umpteenth time, government intervention does not revolve around a 'chequebook'. I again refer you to post 129 by myself in this thread.
You also ignored most of my questions in posts 174 and 193. I would appreciate a response to these before another unfounded, misinformed anti BE rant.
Dublin Commuter 07 wrote:
I agree that there is a role for private companies to take part in the services in a bigger way, however at the same time, whilst Citylink, JJ Kavanagh, Aircoach and GoBus would appear to be good employers who pay their staff a fair wage, I think it's right that we don't want things to go to the levels of what it is alleged Dublin Coach are paid, as seen in this thread and the Belfast thread.
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