With the way things are going within CIE, and funding for new buses, is the safer option not to refurbish some of the older low-floor buses, such as those mentioned below? As it is, with new buses being considered for the end of this year into 2012, they won't be enough to replace 11, 12 year old buses, so by refurbishing these, their operating life within the companies can be extended for another couple of years at least. The last of the Bombardiers and GAC buses did last right up to 2001, which is almost 20 years. I'm not saying that the early low-floors will last 20 years, but refurbishment is really the only option to keep them going for longer, if it is not possible for a replacement program to continue on a large scale. Sixty-five VTs here may not even be sufficient to lead to the withdrawl of all the RVs, which could mean some would last into 2012, which would result in them being over 12 years old. The only thing likely to happen here is that buses will transfer elsewhere, leading to the withdrawl of a good few RVs. The AWs were complicated to service, which is part of the reason for their withdrawl. They did undergo some refurbishment, but the company still decided to withdraw them. And, as pointed out, this has had a negative impact on the 4. And the early AVs on this route, from what I can undertand, are unable to cope with the large loads, and some do look tired as well.