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Posts: 3357
15/09/2010 14:11:33
Interact
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15/09/2010 15:32:09
Posts: 665
15/09/2010 15:38:35
15/09/2010 16:10:49
Posts: 7130
15/09/2010 16:29:59
Posts: 2158
15/09/2010 19:13:10
15/09/2010 20:40:19
Yes I very much agree that past experience should count but my own experience of government tender based procurement finds that the cheapest option to tick the boxes is the winner bar none. Yes they may build restrictions into the tender to eliminate certain makes or models but if these suppliers can address these issues in some way they can easily get their foot back in the door. In terms of back up alot of the time all the tender can do is require a certain spread of dealers, guaranteed response for breakdowns and something like a mandatory parts stock which must be held for BE vehicles.VC105 Setra are by far the dearest coach in the market place and considered as being at the pinnacle of European coach building along with Neoplan. Coincidently both bodies are German. VanHool would follow close behind in terms of pricing and Jonckheere would fit in just below that. I was just speaking to a private operator just now and he said, taking Volvo B12B as a case in point, the dearest option for a 12m coach from Volvo is the 9700, then Plaxton Elite, then VanHool Alizee, then Jonckheere SHV, then Sunsundegui, then Plaxton Paragon. If you just read some of the trade press like Bus & Coach Buyer, RouteOne etc you will see this borne out time and again. This comparison is on list prices only and may change slightly with negotiated NETT prices but will remain largely as is.It makes sense that for a small order BE should buy for the tours fleet and cascade present vehicles. If it (which it probably will) goes to a tender process I'd say it could come down to LC's or some Scania option (the minus button on the calculator would have to be in overdrive to get the price of PB's down to match the LC but could happen!!) I wouldn't rule Volvo out purely on the gearbox as I believe, form trade press, a resticted I-Shift may now be available with only D, N and R gear selection and no manual option.
Posts: 1661
15/09/2010 22:08:44
15/09/2010 23:19:35
16/09/2010 00:55:20
16/09/2010 08:27:47
16/09/2010 10:08:36
16/09/2010 11:20:08
16/09/2010 13:48:20
VWL119 wrote:Not having a traditional auto doesn't do them any favours but the industry is moving away from these due to the superior fuel economy of the new generation i-Shift/AS Tronic gearboxes. Scania only offers it on the least powerful engines. Volvo got a stern warning from the 3 big UK groups (Stagecoach , First & Arriva) that they risk being eliminated from the fleet sales market if they dont cop themselfs on about what the operators want in terms of coach gearboxes , which is full automatic , I believe that Moir Lockhead (First Group) recently said that they would look at having all their coach needs met from Japaneese manufacturers if the likes of Volvo will not supply the spec they want. (Ulsterbus made a similar threat to Leyland many years ago when Leyland was pushing the National on them and did'nt want to supply the RELL (which was basically a Leyland product by that stage) , Ulsterbus threatened to "Go Japaneese" , and within weeks Leyland agreed to continue production of the RELL as an "Export" model for Ulsterbus)
16/09/2010 14:09:39
16/09/2010 14:09:52
The reason for the new wave of gearboxes, a la iShift, AS-Tronic (called "automated manuals" I believe) etc is two fold. Firstly there is the fuel economy problem where full auto's give poor fuel economy. Secondly even the newest full auto boxes are constant-mesh type boxes and are unable to deal with the torque output of the larger new generation engines. That is why you can only get it up to 340hp with Scania and why Volvo have none as they did away with the 340hp B!2 a while ago and the B9 starts at 380hp. Interestingly Volvo always said you couldn't have a full auto over 360hp while Scania always said you couldn't over 380hp (The K114/124 in an SP is a 360/380hp engine), yet they both use the exact same gearbox!!!I do know that there is a restricted option for I-Shift and AS-Tronic. Ulsterbus Ayats Coaches have the restricted AS-Tronic and I beleive some of Callinan's I-Shift coaches have been restricted. In this case they only have auto mode with the driver basically only able to select D. N or R. I don't know why alot more of the fleets haven't latched onto this option.
16/09/2010 17:22:39
16/09/2010 17:33:17
16/09/2010 17:41:38
16/09/2010 18:23:48